Date: 2011-07-12 01:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] starandrea.livejournal.com
It would be nice if they could find a way to compromise on this, to meet each other in the middle, so that neither partner is a slave to the other's sexuality :)

...am I doing a disservice by treating asexuality like a priest kink or a "let's turn the straight boy gay!" kink?

Thank you so much for asking this question ♥♥♥

Date: 2011-07-12 01:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chartruscan.livejournal.com
> compromise

I realized after I posted this that it was a one-sided poll, not taking into consideration that Dean, in the pursuit of this relationship, would having to be making some big life-changing decisions of his own. And that I was taking the "straight-boy-becomes-gay-Yay!" trope for granted.

So, yes, absolutely.

Like vulgar_snail and I were talking about in the comments for Part 2, there is too much "gosh, I wish I had known how awesome gay sex was or I'd've been doing it sooner!" Bam! Gay. Or, rather, bisexual.

In cannon-based fic, it's easier to get around this by having Dean realize that he love's *Cas*, the one that's a celestial wavelength, and not Jimmy's body, so the sexual identity is sort of taken out of the equation in the end (after much angsting over it for the first three quarters of the fic).

Date: 2011-07-12 01:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chartruscan.livejournal.com
Also, thank you so much for replying.

Honestly, what prompted me to ask the question and write the poll was the response of readers who seemed so totally (and to me, shockingly) onboard with the asexuality, and I began to fear that not only would I be letting them down on the premise they seemed to be digging wholeheartedly, but it was those enthusiastic responses that made me begin to doubt my original plot.

Because, yes, like in your own journal, you say that in communities we help form each others opinions, and sadly, mine has been strongly influenced by slash fanfic authored by what I assume (perhaps wrongly) are a lot of straight women (of which I am one).

I've read the gammut of fanfic in the D/C fandom. I'm exhausted. I'd really like to see something new, and I hopefully can tackle this in a responsible but enjoyable and sometimes cracky manner.

I'm not feeling any pressure, btw :D

Date: 2011-07-13 03:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] starandrea.livejournal.com
I'm an asexual lesbian, and one of the many reasons I enjoy writing Dean/Cas fic is because it feels so appropriate to incorporate some of the issues that arise in a relationship between people with very different sexual identities :) Also, if I might pass on a compliment to you that [livejournal.com profile] australian_joe left in my journal: "I am made so very happy to learn there are writers who are careful enough to notice potential issues of this sort, and brave enough to ask for help in navigating them."

Good luck with Harbor Lights - I look forward to reading more! ♥

ETA: Sorry for the deletion; I'm having some trouble remembering how to use LJ! I realized after the fact that I'd used the dreamwidth tags for [livejournal.com profile] australian_joe's name, causing it to not appear, and when I realized I couldn't edit my comment I was all, "This shall not stand!" and, you know. Here we are. Hopefully I am satisfied this time ^_^

Date: 2011-07-13 04:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chartruscan.livejournal.com
I really appreciate your feedback (and australia joe's!).

I don't know how appropriate it would be or how comfortable I'd be logging onto asexualty.org to say "hey, I'm doing research for a story"... but I'm trying to put in my due diligence reading up on various sites and gaining different perspectives and individual's personal stories. I haven't gotten too deep, except for discovering that the sexual's seem to be more open to talk, and it tends to revolve around the resentment, misunderstanding, and self-doubt that arise from discovering that they are in a relationship with an asexual. I'm still looking for anecdotes on sexuals who have pursued a relationship knowing all the important facts.

And that's absolutely fascinating that the D/C relationship works like that for you. Have you found other authors and fic that have tackled it in this fashion?

I'll most definitely be checking out your fic at some point in the future.

Date: 2011-07-14 03:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] starandrea.livejournal.com
I find that asexuality is more visible in the Supernatural fandom than most, with the glaring exception of Sherlock (and to a lesser extent, White Collar), so there's lots of interesting examples :) There's perhaps a dearth of romance-focused (as opposed to sex-focused) fic, suggesting that it is in fact treated as something of a kink, but any acknowledgment of asexuality is a welcome change ♥

Here are a few of the Supernatural stories that I remember the links to ~

Attempted Debauchery (http://oywidapoodles.livejournal.com/6188.html), by [livejournal.com profile] oywidapoodles (Dean is uncomfortable with Castiel's lack of sexual understanding)
Right Through You (http://libraryofsol.livejournal.com/136097.html), by [livejournal.com profile] entangled_now (Dean is mildly worried about Castiel's sexual understanding)
Darkfall (http://shirozora.livejournal.com/250812.html), by [livejournal.com profile] shirozora (Dean is perfectly happy with Castiel's sexual understanding)
Sensation (http://sakuri69.livejournal.com/6317.html), by [livejournal.com profile] sakuri69 (AU: Demon!Dean doesn't care about Castiel's sexual understanding - kink warning)
Lay Me Down (http://glassyskies.livejournal.com/131076.html), by [livejournal.com profile] glassyskies (Nobody cares about anybody else's sexual understanding - cuddles)
Oath by Elementalv (http://archiveofourown.org/works/193176), as remixed by kumquatix (An asexual remix of a sexual story - extra clever!)

(When it comes to my stories, they're long and shippy with sexuality as a background reality rather than the focus, so it may not be worth it to you to wend your way through :) That notwithstanding, the two that deal with Cas' sexuality most explicitly are I Got Soul but I'm Not a Soldier (http://archiveofourown.org/works/137551/chapters/197455) (standalone AU) and When the Sky Calls You Home (http://archiveofourown.org/works/59015) (second in a series).)

Date: 2011-07-13 03:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] starandrea.livejournal.com
I'm not feeling any pressure, btw :D

PS: No, I'm sure you're not ::grin::

Date: 2011-07-13 04:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chartruscan.livejournal.com
Nope, nada.

::sweats::

Date: 2011-07-12 02:32 am (UTC)
meanheans: (listen)
From: [personal profile] meanheans
So... I answered the poll all knee-jerk with wanting Deansexual!Cas, because that means there's revelation and joy and sex all around. That said, I know that in actuality true asexuals hardly ever get into relationships that resolve like this. I had to sit and really think about what I wanted to say, because -were I writing this- I would want to treat the subject matter with as much truth as possible while still keeping characters in-character.

I propose a remix!

Do the story how you originally intended to do it (Deansexual, I'm assuming) while highlighting the fact that Cas -as someone who has long identified with a particular sexuality- is having to re-examine himself and what he believes to be true. Don't forget Dean, knowing how Cas is and knowing he's thrown a wrench in the spokes... his own crisis. Give weight to the issue of a sexual identity crisis even though it's going to have a Magical Happy Ending. Once that one's done, maybe do a remix where it gets REAL and Cas' sexuality doesn't change -though he does experiment- and while Dean figures out how he feels about his friend, they all find a way to make it work so that they don't lose each other. (Hopefully!)

I'm partial to happy-fun-time fics and always think these two should be sexin', so of course I want that, but I understand wanting to pay respect to a topic that almost never appears realistically in fic. It's a tough choice you've got for yourself, and I for one am just so glad you even thought to ask about it!

Date: 2011-07-12 02:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chartruscan.livejournal.com
I think that's to be the expected knee-jerk reaction, and it was mine. Especially since it's true for Dean where in most fics he's Cassexual. Not to be mistaken for casual sex.

When I first started really re-evaluating what I was doing, I had a fleeting thought that a whole challenge could be based around this, because lord knows I wanted to explore each and every option, including the ones I didn't mention like Dean never being able to get past the roadblock of his heterosexuality.

I won't say how I'll end up leaning, so as not to spoil the story, but thank you so much for your feedback!


Date: 2011-07-21 04:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chartruscan.livejournal.com
> do a remix

I truly think that hundreds (okay, maybe just dozens) of fic could come out of riffing of this, because if I've learned anything in my exploration of asexuality, it's that it's not cut-and-dry. There seem to be as many permutations of asexuality, the degree of intimacy desired, the degree of intimacy allowed, and so many other factors, that it's kind of freeing in what I am realistically allowed to do, but also frightening, because, hey, they're not all one camp. There is no way that I am going to be able to portray it truthfully for all aces, because they are all so individual and different. (And I suspect that even homosexual fanfiction has been oversimplified and copied from other oversimplified fic --and I love you, fic! I do! But I'm not a gay man and I've got to believe that there's more nuance to a homosexual relationship -any relationship- than "gosh, if only we knew we liked each other and got over the rom-com misunderstandings, we'd be doing the horizontal mambo by now!" -and now I've lost where I was with the parentheses and asides.

But, yes, there are so many ways that this relationship could be explored in this fic, and in others, and I'd love to see them!

Sadly, I think that with the snail pace that I work at, I will have to commit to one and be done with it. Because it's not separate from the plot or the pacing for me, they feed into each other. *Maybe* it could be done with a few substitutions down the line, but I'd like to kid myself that everything would have to be rewritten to incorporate a new romantic strategy. But I'm more than happy to see someone springboard off of any and everything discussed or written here, and happily read it.

Hmmm, I am le tired and making no sense.

Thanks for the feedback and opinions! I really am glad to see people responding to my badly phrased poll (oh, how I cringe looking at it!).

And this led me further down the RL rabbit hole when exploring the romance side of an asexual's relationship. Because, hey, it's not just about sex. There's the emotional/intellectual aspect as well, and guess what? This extends to the sexuals as well. My favorite new term? Heterosexual homoromantic. It exists. There's another category

Date: 2011-07-14 07:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] arixtotle.livejournal.com
I would really, really like you to explore a relationship between asexual Cas and a non asexual Dean. Such relationships are not usually explored in literature at all. I would really like to see some kind of compromise where they live together and are boyfriends in every way except for sexually but Dean goes and gets his sexual release elsewhere and they are both okay with that. As in they have an open relationship. It would be interesting to see them maybe struggle to come to the compromise and find a happy balance. Maybe you could even explore people, such as Sam, not understanding their relationship.

Well if you don't write something like that I may have to do it myself. You've given me plot bunnies.

Date: 2011-07-21 05:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chartruscan.livejournal.com
That is an absolutely valid avenue, and I have been toying with the idea: Dean continuing to find his sexual release in meaningless one-night stands while being monogamously romantically involved with Cas. That's a hard road that I don't think I'd find any joy in exploring on the writing end, but definitely something intriguing to see someone else handle. That seems to be a route that some ace/sexual relationships pursue, and while I can *see* that working with very het Dean, I just can't bring myself to *feel* it.

So, please, take the plot bunnies and run with them! And then link me when they're posted :D My mind races with the many possibilities that taking Castiel's asexuality literally opens up.

Love it

Date: 2011-07-20 03:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sparzakvj.livejournal.com
I kinda have to agree with you on the skiping the porn and going for the plot in some multichapter fics. I can only stand so many sex scenes and 1 or 2 is enoough for me as long as they're well written. The way I see it is Cas is only Asexual because he hasn't had a good sexual experience in his life. Sex isn't important (unless I'm reading me favorite pairings) to me bc I had a bad experience. It just how people work. But Cas needs to know what it's like to be love in all ways. I don't like him not getting anything out of the experience. I've read fics like that and have found them just not gratifing by the end, emotionally. I really like the story so far and How in 2a you place 2 cliffhangers at the end of the chapter instead of 1, way to keep me on my toes, and coming back for more!

Date: 2011-08-12 12:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ghostyouknow27.livejournal.com
I'm sure you've already made up your mind ... but I voted for Cas remains asexual but puts up with the sex. I think the two of them trying to compromise and work it out could be really interesting (and even in relationships where one person isn't ace, couples sometimes have to reconcile different sex drives). But I have a hard time seeing Dean choose a life of celibacy, even if he's in love with Cas.

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